I am sitting in a warm cafe in Zagreb, my fucking favouritest city in the world, drinking great coffee for 90p a cup, listening to jazz music and typing up some thoughts on something that happened to me last week.
Young, beautiful… probably not single.
When a girl gives me the boyfriend line; and it’s true: Is it worth me pursuing her? What do I do to make sure my pursuit of her is going somewhere? How can I prevent myself from becoming just some orbiting fuckwit?
Is it worth pursuing her?
Well, I say yes. Of course it is. I have always said that if you want a top quality woman, a woman who is above a mid 8, intelligent, well dressed, playful and feminine and makes you feel good to be around… well she ain’t likely to be single. She’s going to have some kind of boyfriend.
So that being said, if you want a top woman, you’re going to have to accept that you’re probably going to have to take her off someone else.
If she’s a quality woman, she won’t cheat on her boyfriend of course and I certainly don’t want a woman who would. But there are plenty of grey areas and the word ‘boyfriend’ can mean a lot of different things. I want to find out exactly what it means in each case before making my decision.
So this being the case, the words ‘I have a boyfriend’ have always meant nothing to me, even when I know it’s true. I accept these words as a conversational inconsequentiality in the same manner I accept the words ‘have a nice day’ and ‘pleased to meet you’. She’s hot, she’s young, she swings her arse when she walks and she dresses like a movie star. No shit she has a boyfriend, and if the circumstances are right, I am going to take her off him.
Take one example last week. As I wandered around a market in a student neighbourhood in East Zagreb, the rain was just tailing off slightly and I saw a mid to high 8 wander through the stalls. She was dressed well, just like me, light grey torn jeans, black t shirt and black leather jacket. She wore white Converse, I wore black. She had long, quite bushy black hair and stood about 5 foot 6.
I cut through the stalls and followed behind her at a swifter pace to catch up. It gave me a few moments to catch sight of her body as she walked, swaying her arse from side to side as if to say ‘come and get me’.
I didn’t want to talk to her in the drizzle, so I timed it until she passed under the cover of a nearby cluster of coffee shops and then ran forward and stopped her with the by now industry standard reverse open.
French!?! I’m not French! Can’t you see, I am an overweight, angry British chick!
It was a cookie cutter conversation.
Me: I like your style. I was walking behind you to go to my coffee shop and I liked watching you walk too.
Her: Thank you…, wow, I’ve never been stopped before, fluff, fluff.
After a minute of fluff, the conversation started to dry up a little so to prevent her saying ‘I have to go’ I dropped a standard booster:
Me: ‘Well, anyway, I was going to say… You don’t look Croatian…’
Her: Oh I am not; I am very special, I am half Croatian, half Dalmatian – blah blah blah.
And we roll on. Every time it lulls, I fall back on a booster and as we go on, the lulls become less and less and the conversation becomes easier. She’s clearly getting interested; she asks my name, she is smiling, laughing, lots of eye contact. She is looking at me like she has found something awesome.
Then she looks at her watch in mild panic and she tells me she has an exam and she has to go or she will be late. There is a pause. She doesn’t want to lose me. So I say, fine, let’s go for coffee sometime. Then I get the boyfriend line.
‘I don’t think I should meet you, I have a boyfriend’.
So here I am in a situation where I am ostensibly being told ‘Look, I am attached, so, you can’t have me like that. But we can just be friends. If you’re willing to just be a friend, that’s fine’.
Again, is it worth me spending my time pursuing in this situation?
Well, the answer for me is an obvious ‘yes’. So this is what I said.
‘Look, I’m not interested in that. This is not necessarily romantic, you know. I think you’re interesting. You’re a good looking woman and you’re intelligent. So we should be friends’.
(Note: I always say ‘good looking woman’ because I am making it clear that this is actually a male-female thing and it is not sexless. With this line I am driving away the girls who have a significant relationship. I am filtering, by saying this, for the girls who are willing, even if only deep in their subconscious, to be taken by me. By saying this, the girls who are locked into a solid relationship will just say ‘no, but thanks’. The girls who deep down are willing to move on to someone new hear this and know what the situation is.)
I am looking for the girls who haven’t decided they like me in a romantic way yet, time will tell, but in the meantime she needs some plausible deniability that makes it OK to meet with me, while she makes her mind up what to do.
Whatever the situation is with this particular girl, whatever the state of affairs is with this ‘boyfriend’ (again, assuming he does exist) I know she is meeting me on the basis a man likes to get to know good looking women. Somewhere in her little head there is an acceptance that I may be a romantic option for her and here is a chance for her to not turn it away, while at the same time not doing anything bad.
So ‘friends’ we are. And we will meet on that basis.
What do I do to make sure my pursuit of her is going somewhere?
So let’s say I go on a date with a girl who has claimed ‘boyfriend’. Well, as long as we hang out, then I am quickly going to end up in one of two categories:
- A genuine contender for taking her off her boyfriend.
- A minor contender who she is just happy to keep in orbit.
My first job is simply to put myself in the firmly in the first category.
I’ll game as normal, but I’ll tone down the overt sexual and kino vibe slightly while I work out exactly what is going on with her and her guy. I don’t want to scare off a top drawer girl like my girlfriend JJ by being too indiscreet too early on.
But I have to not fall into a non sexual, non romantic frame, so I might make sure I am on her romantic radar through flirtation by proxy. So I’d say things like:
‘You see this is what I see all the time. Guys like me who are well travelled and can do what they like, well, it’s only natural we date only intelligent women. They both have intellectual curiosity about the world. The man and the woman. Women like you are interesting to guys like them because you’re not only pleasant to be with, but you match our aspirations, you fit with their plans.’
Read that carefully again. ‘we date… guys like them.. our aspirations… their plans’.
We. Them. Our. Their. I am talking about me and her, no, I am talking about them and girls like her, no, I am talking about me and her. It’s just an example. People like me and her. But me and her.
Usually her situation is simply that it’s not a serious boyfriend, or it’s a dying relationship. Either way she knows it’s not a long term thing. She may not have realised she wants, or needs, to move on, but move on she will. All you have to do is pitch your value higher than his and keep a strong non needy frame and you can take her off him.
Just stay firm, pitch your value high and know what you’re doing. She’s with you as she thinks you may be progress. Test her to check you’re not just an orbiter and you’ll be fine.
See my recent post on the 3 Bromigos for my signs you’re an orbiter.
Just for the record, I am talking from experience. Most of my girlfriends have been in relationships when I met them and I have had to take them off a current boyfriend. I do it swiftly, decisively and without any regret.
Example One – Martha: Met her in a book store. She wouldn’t give me her number (because she had a boyfriend). We arranged a date and time to meet, as ‘friends’ and we met accordingly. Within three months I was her boyfriend. For two years.
Example Two – JJ: My current girlfriend. When I met her, she had a boyfriend. Within two weeks of meeting me she had left him – ostensibly for me. We’ve been together a year now. Our anniversary (of my initial street stop) was the 16th April.
Now both Martha and JJ have their own very specific stories, their relationships were in unique places, etc. With Marta, I worked out quickly that she was indeed in a relationship, but one where the guy had begun to demonstrate for a while now he had no life plan and little to offer her in terms of a future. She was outgrowing his looks and fun company and was beginning to realise she needed more. She was beginning to realise that the relationship had no future. Once I had worked this out, it was easy for me to take her off him.
I DHV myself as usual and let her work out the solution for herself. They always do.
How can I prevent myself from becoming just some orbiting fuckwit?
If you do most of what we discussed, you’ll be fine. You’ll rarely come up against this issue because they only put lower value guys in orbit. If you’re in orbit, you might have to accept that you’re just not man enough to take her off her current guy.
If you you really must persist:
First know what the signs of ‘orbiterdom’ are. Orbiter isn’t necessarily ‘friend zone’. Friend zone is firmly ‘just friends’. You simply don’t get her wet. Orbiter is ‘maybe one day Mr., but not today. Until I decide, keep your dick in your pants and let me soak up the validation’.
See my recent post on the 3 Bromigos for my signs you’re an orbiter and don’t let her get away with that behaviour. Nip it in the bud early on, set your stall out. You have to brazen your way into a position as a prize she has to fight for. Set yourself up as not in competition with anyone, not her man or her other orbiters.
Her: ‘Will you make me a cup of tea’
Me (playfully): ‘Check you out. You’ve got a good body (quickly eye it up and down) and you dress well, you think you can make me into your butler’.
Make sure flirtatious talk is established early and don’t apologise for it.
‘Look, we may not be fucking, but I am a man, you are a woman. And I like you in that dress. Now pass me that salt.’
If she does make a big issue of it and you can’t establish that ground, then fair enough, you’re at the thin end of the wedge. Go street stop 10 other girls and move on. Invest time where the odds are better.
In all situations, keep opening, keep meeting new targets and turn all women into your orbiters. This in itself will keep you safe. When you have 3 excellent options, you tend not to get played, because those girls who are willing to play you won’t make it onto your busy radar.
So, going back to this chick I stopped the other day and this date I had with her. Well, the first thing is, I didn’t turn up. I have a girlfriend. I don’t go for coffees any more with hot young women. I’ll street stop them, enjoy the game, take her number, what’s app her a while to test it was a genuine win.. and that’s it.
But let’s say I was going to turn up. What then?
My philosophy is this:
Whatever happens, it’s one hour of my life having a coffee with a beautiful, intelligent young woman. That’s what I am ‘risking’. Wait! That’s my life? I have coffees all the time with beautiful, intelligent, hot young women? OK. I can’t really lose out here. No matter what happens.
Some sets will almost certainly end up in your bed, some won’t. If you go for 10 coffees and get only 2 girls from it… then check you out! You had 10 pleasant experiences with 10 great women and even got to fuck 2 of them!
I wouldn’t see the 8 that got away as ‘fails’. Unless you’re running 0/10, your worst case scenario here is pretty fucking pleasant.